Important: Your continued use of this forum indicates acceptance of the forum rules. Please make sure you have read and understand these rules.

Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 1.5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
An attempt to improve the standard of arguments on the forum
prof beard Offline
Global Moderator
********
Global Moderators

Posts: 15,232
Likes Given: 1,195
Likes Received: 5,979 in 2,521 posts
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 47
Sex: Male
Location: Stafford, UK
Post: #1
An attempt to improve the standard of arguments on the forum
In many parts of the forum, but especially in the lounge and political sub-forum (but also in certain vaping discussion - eg the "clone wars" Smiling ) I see many "arguments" descending into name calling and what are, in fact, entirely illogical ways of arguing.

The most common failing is descent into the various forms on "ad hominem" - basically "you are an idiot and therefore what you say is".

As a reference, can I point the more "willing to read things" at this:

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/

If nothing else it is an interesting read...

I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools


İmage
09/09/15 11:52 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
[-] The following 17 users Like prof beard's post:
A1 Vaper (09/09/15), Amazing Vape (30/10/15), anditweighsaton (09/09/15), B1mble (09/09/15), BigStuart (09/09/15), ceedee (09/09/15), Cheekiecharlie (09/09/15), crusse (09/09/15), FlamingKaty (09/09/15), Hugh Crummond (25/09/15), Izan (09/09/15), JoBo (09/09/15), marlowejames (09/09/15), ModAtty (25/10/15), nisam (09/09/15), Phil A (09/09/15), stevelauder (09/09/15)
crusse Offline
Chief Pornographer
*******

Posts: 7,034
Likes Given: 3,430
Likes Received: 6,552 in 3,011 posts
Joined: Nov 2013
Reputation: 69
Sex: Male
Location: Coventry, UK
Post: #2
RE: An attempt to improve the standard of arguments on the forum
I totally agree Prof - people who use ad hominem arguments are illogical idiots and are therefore always wrong. HeHe!

"For me an object is something living. This box contains a secret life much more intense than that of certain human beings." - Joan Miro
09/09/15 11:58 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
[-] The following 7 users Like crusse's post:
anditweighsaton (09/09/15), ceedee (09/09/15), FlamingKaty (09/09/15), Hugh Crummond (25/09/15), lil_Tuéy (09/09/15), prof beard (09/09/15), Scritti (09/09/15)
Mantisreflex Away
Left Voluntarily

Posts: 905
Likes Given: 423
Likes Received: 543 in 352 posts
Joined: Oct 2013
Sex: Male
Location: Solihull
Post: #3
RE: An attempt to improve the standard of arguments on the forum
(09/09/15 11:58 AM)crusse Wrote:  I totally agree Prof - people who use ad hominem arguments are illogical idiots and are therefore always wrong. HeHe!

Can't argue with that...
09/09/15 12:00 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
prof beard Offline
Global Moderator
********
Global Moderators

Posts: 15,232
Likes Given: 1,195
Likes Received: 5,979 in 2,521 posts
Joined: Jul 2012
Reputation: 47
Sex: Male
Location: Stafford, UK

Thread Starter

Post: #4
RE: An attempt to improve the standard of arguments on the forum
(09/09/15 11:58 AM)crusse Wrote:  I totally agree Prof - people who use ad hominem arguments are illogical idiots and are therefore always wrong. HeHe!


You've reminded me crusse, I'm construction a new contribution for that page called "ad boxium" Smiling

I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools


İmage
09/09/15 12:29 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
[-] The following 2 users Like prof beard's post:
crusse (09/09/15), MatthewGivingUp (15/06/16)
crusse Offline
Chief Pornographer
*******

Posts: 7,034
Likes Given: 3,430
Likes Received: 6,552 in 3,011 posts
Joined: Nov 2013
Reputation: 69
Sex: Male
Location: Coventry, UK
Post: #5
RE: An attempt to improve the standard of arguments on the forum
(09/09/15 12:29 PM)prof beard Wrote:  You've reminded me crusse, I'm construction a new contribution for that page called "ad boxium" Smiling

"Ad boxium" is more of an argumentative technique than a fallacy - it usually involves babbling about boxes so much that your opponent forgets what they were talking about and concedes just to make you shut up. It's remarkably effective! Big Grin

"For me an object is something living. This box contains a secret life much more intense than that of certain human beings." - Joan Miro
09/09/15 12:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
[-] The following 1 user Likes crusse's post:
prof beard (09/09/15)
lil_Tuéy Offline
:)
******
Mod Makers and Sellers

Posts: 4,437
Likes Given: 6,492
Likes Received: 2,670 in 1,452 posts
Joined: Mar 2014
Reputation: 30
Sex: Male
Location: Newcastle
Post: #6
RE: An attempt to improve the standard of arguments on the forum
Simple solution; don't say idiotic things. If you do get called an idiot for saying idiotic things, it is not an ad hominem attack.

09/09/15 12:40 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
crusse Offline
Chief Pornographer
*******

Posts: 7,034
Likes Given: 3,430
Likes Received: 6,552 in 3,011 posts
Joined: Nov 2013
Reputation: 69
Sex: Male
Location: Coventry, UK
Post: #7
RE: An attempt to improve the standard of arguments on the forum
(09/09/15 12:40 PM)lil_Tuéy Wrote:  Simple solution; don't say idiotic things. If you do get called an idiot for saying idiotic things, it is not an ad hominem attack.

Technically speaking, the fallacious inference in an ad hominen argument is to infer "you're wrong" from "you're an (insert insulting term here)". Or to put it another way, someone could be an idiot who typically says idiotic things, but this doesn't mean that they're wrong on this particular occasion (even idiots get things right from time to time! Big Grin )

"For me an object is something living. This box contains a secret life much more intense than that of certain human beings." - Joan Miro
09/09/15 12:54 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
lil_Tuéy Offline
:)
******
Mod Makers and Sellers

Posts: 4,437
Likes Given: 6,492
Likes Received: 2,670 in 1,452 posts
Joined: Mar 2014
Reputation: 30
Sex: Male
Location: Newcastle
Post: #8
RE: An attempt to improve the standard of arguments on the forum
Yeah I know Smiling

09/09/15 12:56 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
crusse Offline
Chief Pornographer
*******

Posts: 7,034
Likes Given: 3,430
Likes Received: 6,552 in 3,011 posts
Joined: Nov 2013
Reputation: 69
Sex: Male
Location: Coventry, UK
Post: #9
RE: An attempt to improve the standard of arguments on the forum
(09/09/15 12:56 PM)lil_Tuéy Wrote:  Yeah I know Smiling

I think Prof's suggesting that instead of saying "you're an idiot and therefore you're wrong", we should be a bit more diplomatic and logical. For example, it's perfectly acceptable to say "you're an idiot, but you might be right on this occasion. But if you are, then it's just a stroke of luck because you're an idiot!" HeHe!

"For me an object is something living. This box contains a secret life much more intense than that of certain human beings." - Joan Miro
09/09/15 01:10 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
lil_Tuéy Offline
:)
******
Mod Makers and Sellers

Posts: 4,437
Likes Given: 6,492
Likes Received: 2,670 in 1,452 posts
Joined: Mar 2014
Reputation: 30
Sex: Male
Location: Newcastle
Post: #10
RE: An attempt to improve the standard of arguments on the forum
I know Smiling but I also have an idea why this thread was created Smiling

09/09/15 01:21 PM
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)