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Manifesto
jessica Offline
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Post: #1
Manifesto
Here's the new Vapers In Power manifesto. What do you think?



Vapers In Power exists to uphold the right of ex-smokers to practise harm reduction using their various types of ecigs, whether the devices are technically-advanced or those resembling cigarettes.
We are committed to the freedom of choice for current and future smokers in using their preferred type of ecigs and flavoured eliquid.
We call for Article 20 to be removed from the Tobacco Products Directive on the grounds that ecigs are not tobacco products. Furthermore, we reject the provisions of Article 20 because it is based on a misrepresentation of scientific studies, because it will render ecigs ineffectual, and because it gives tobacco products a distinctly unfair advantage over the much less harmful alternative. The TPD limits the nicotine strength in eliquids to an arbitrary and unscientific 20 mg/ml, based on a misreading of a paper by Dr Farsalinos. It limits bottle size to 10ml, based on since discredited 18th Century notions of nicotine toxicity - again the current science was ignored by the EU. It ignores any real concerns of safety that most ecig users would welcome regulation on - e.g. limits on diketones. It applies an advertising ban on a product that has not been shown to harm, and in fact is starting to generate measurable population-level health benefits. It imposes a 6-month notification regime for new ecig products with no justification. It allows member states to ban all non-medical ecigs. It proposes outrageously expensive and largely irrelevant testing procedures. It allows member states to ban flavourings - i.e. to neuter the thing that is keeping smokers off their cigarettes.. The Tobacco Products Directive is designed to give combusted tobacco and ineffective Nicotine Replacement Treatments an unfair advantage over ecigs, the much less harmful alternative.
We support the continuation of general consumer product regulations applying to ecigs and eliquid with certain provisos:
We call for new legislation to regulate the sales of ecigs to minors. We are in favour of appropriate warnings on eliquid bottles that reflect modern scientific understanding regarding the toxicity of nicotine and which comply with any relevant CLP regulations. We are committed to affordable and effective testing for known or potential dangers in flavoured eliquid, and for eliquid manufacturers to be inspected for hygiene under existing legislation. We believe that existing consumer legislation is sufficient for the safety of batteries and chargers. We also want ecig vendors to supply comprehensive guidelines about battery and charger safety with ecig battery products. We do not accept that ecigs should be classified as either tobacco or medicinal products because they are neither; they are a general consumer product.
We will push for action against bogus science and propaganda that endangers life.
We will support the thriving, small ecig businesses which are driving innovation in the ecig sector and boosting local economies by employing local people.
We will support the pub industry by campaigning for ecigs to be permitted in more pubs.
We believe that the maximum taxation for ecigs and eliquid should be at the VAT rate; it would be morally wrong to have a 'sin tax' on this much less harmful alternative to tobacco.
We defend the right of individuals to use ecigs in all outside public spaces.
We defend the right of the individual to decide whether ecig use should be permitted on their property.
We are committed to educating both individuals and corporate bodies with regards to the facts of ecig use and harm reduction.
We call on employers who prohibit the use of ecigs in the workplace to re-assess their policies and at minimum provide separate shelters.
We defend the right of freedom of speech to discuss ecigs in public, and for ecig products to be advertised.

Administrator at the New Nicotine Alliance(UK) , Registered Charity Number 1160481
30/10/14 01:26 AM
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blaze (30/10/14), FlamingKaty (30/10/14), Hugh Crummond (30/10/14), Ken (07/11/14), Markse (30/10/14), PeteC (01/11/14)
blaze Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Manifesto
Great work on this jessica!

Re-reading it, I'm not so sure about this:

"The Tobacco Products Directive is designed to give combusted tobacco and ineffective Nicotine Replacement Treatments an unfair advantage over ecigs, the much less harmful alternative."

(even though I may well have written it in the first place!)

1. The TPD isn't designed to give combusted tobacco an advantage over ecigs - even if that is the outcome.
2. We've already said "the much less harmful alternative".

Undecided
30/10/14 08:15 AM
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jessica (30/10/14)
blaze Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Manifesto
We should add something like:

We will push to end the dangerous situation whereby 5V chargers and 4.2V chargers can be used interchangeably.
30/10/14 10:14 AM
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Markse (30/10/14)
itsmeitis Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Manifesto
i'd like to pick up this point ...

"ignores any real concerns of safety that most ecig users would welcome regulation on"

and ask what efforts are in place in reflection to this, following statement ...

It is a matter of the utmost concern that it appears to be the case that many of the mech mods are designed with inadequate venting provision, and many have vents of insufficient size located at the wrong end of where the battery may vent.

thanks.
(This post was last modified: 30/10/14 03:30 PM by itsmeitis.)
30/10/14 03:29 PM
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blaze Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Manifesto
Its a valid point ismeitis, and also the ongoing cigalike chargers (5V) and ego chargers (4.2V) being interchangeable - perhaps we shold spell out the three concerns (additives, venting, chargers) rather than just give one of them as an example?
30/10/14 08:34 PM
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itsmeitis (30/10/14)
Markse Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Manifesto
Yes Itsme, Tom at ECITA is currently running a lot of interesting and scary testing on big battery mods as you probably know. But the vast majority of vapers are using ego-type ecigs I think and they have this big issue of interchangeability of chargers through the 510 connection, yet no standardisation of charge rate or voltage. That is why there have been so many stories of house fires etc caused by these types of ecig. Accidents involving big battery mods seem to be much rarer and indeed Tom is having to heat them up to above 250deg to get them to go into thermal runnaway- not a normal occurrence but a worst case scenario form of testing and it seems that some manufacturers are keen to demonstrate that their products do indeed contain that runaway with little effect- even with the vents in the wrong place! More of this testing should be encouraged I think. It would be interesting to know more about how and why that guy's mod was literally torn apart by the 26650- or perhaps 26650's are just too high an energy density to be safely contained- even with venting? But yes I agree that mod safety should be looked at and encouraged amongst mod makers.

As an example to others, and not that I care for moderation myself, it has always been my rule never to vape when asleep and never to refrain when awake.
30/10/14 10:54 PM
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blaze (31/10/14)
yahoo2u2 Offline
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Post: #7
RE: Manifesto
For me this is one area that is too big

We will support the pub industry by campaigning for ecigs to be permitted in more pubs.

Restaurants? or pubs that sell food might not be happy with this.

just my opinion, but pubs would be problematic.


İmage


Smile, it wont hurt you, go on try it......or not, freedom of choice I suppose.
30/10/14 11:02 PM
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itsmeitis Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Manifesto
(30/10/14 11:02 PM)yahoo2u2 Wrote:  For me this is one area that is too big

We will support the pub industry by campaigning for ecigs to be permitted in more pubs.

Restaurants? or pubs that sell food might not be happy with this.

just my opinion, but pubs would be problematic.

to my mind, pubs do allow vaping - 'cept those that don't.

that is down to either the managers (landlord) or companies decision, and should be respected.

(30/10/14 10:54 PM)Markse Wrote:  ECITA is currently running a lot of interesting and scary testing ...

that's my point - ECITA seem to be publishing some scary, if interesting, insights into 'Mod' safety ...

the fact that the part i quoted earlier does seem to promote substantial doubt which could quickly run into areas which will need addressing.

for example ...

it is feasible to ask employers to accept vaping in the workplace, while there is this perceived potential for explosive consequences ? - same goes for buses, trains, and other enclosed spaces ...

and furthermore,

can it ever again be viable to expect no-one to ever use a 'mod' pre-dating later recommendations which might evolve from 'mod' safety conducted by those with significant interest in pushing lesser devices.
(This post was last modified: 30/10/14 11:24 PM by itsmeitis.)
30/10/14 11:06 PM
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Markse Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Manifesto
Testing is being done and I think equal concerns could be had of mobile phones and laptops which also spontaneously explode from time to time- probably more frequently than big battery ecigs given their ubiquity. Not sure what you can do except test, encourage manufacturers to design products with safety in mind, and prove their safety?

As an example to others, and not that I care for moderation myself, it has always been my rule never to vape when asleep and never to refrain when awake.
30/10/14 11:30 PM
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itsmeitis Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Manifesto
(30/10/14 11:30 PM)Markse Wrote:  Testing is being done and I think equal concerns could be had of mobile phones and laptops which also spontaneously explode from time to time- probably more frequently than big battery ecigs given their ubiquity. Not sure what you can do except test, encourage manufacturers to design products with safety in mind, and prove their safety?

certainly - manufacturers can and should take safety into consideration, however while lots of mods already exist, subsequent 'revised' safety design does nothing to remedy the probably hundreds of thousands, already out there - it seems unrealistic to expect employers, bus companies, transport companies etc, to embrace mod vapers if "many of mech mods are designed with inadequate venting provision".

additional assertion pertaining to clones?, seems to reiterate that this 'problem?' ain't about to go away.

so might it be reckless to encourage ongoing use of such vape gear, if of the believe such significant problem exists ... Scratch Head
(This post was last modified: 30/10/14 11:55 PM by itsmeitis.)
30/10/14 11:51 PM
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