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The "Carto equals" claim thread
Pinkerton Offline
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Post: #11
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
Nicolites, while still vastly overpriced seem to work alright and in all honestly don't taste that bad. Vapestick however, well let's just say I'm dying for the rep to visit while I'm at work. I've yet to meet her and I can't wait to hear her justify that piece of shite.
09/08/12 08:29 AM
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Matt Gluggles Offline
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Post: #12
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
Here are some

VIP - 5 cart=200 cigs (40 per cart)
http://www.vipelectroniccigarette.co.uk/...-p-98.html

Vapourlites - Each cartomizer is equal to approximately 40 regular cigarettes
http://www.vapourlites.com/electronic-ci...fills.html

Freedom - 5 carts = 175 cigs ( 35 cigs per cart )
http://www.freedomcigarettes.com/electro...es/b150-1/

E-Lites - 1 cart = 40 cigs
http://www.e-lites.co.uk/e-cigarette-car...fills.html


This is blatent rubbish - you cannot measure equivalency by 'number of puffs' - I could suck on a straw and say it is the same as 1000000 cigs based on 'puffs'

Consumers have rights to be correctly informed about the products they buy.

To my mind, if a cart is advertised as equal to 40 cigs, then a 20 a day smoker should be able to use that cart for 2 full days without any additional willpower.

Equivalency MUST be based on nicotine delivery and user experience, NOT puffs.

AND these companies do not mention that an e-cig 'puff' needs to be twice as long as a cig 'puff', so the puff count is not comparing like for like.
(This post was last modified: 09/08/12 11:52 AM by Matt Gluggles.)
09/08/12 11:50 AM
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JayLavEnts Offline
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Post: #13
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
As an independent reseller of two of the above brands, but also as a heavy vaper of them, I can freely say I agree with the posts.

I do advise people upon purchase of the relevance of 'puff count' to the measurement and not exactly to their individual habit, which differs vastly amongst people.

I think, specifically it's very true that vapers take longer drags and as such redundifies the Claims made.

I would say that those products are mostly aimed at cigarette smokers, and not vapers, and as such as long as it is cost effective, compared to fags, then it's a viable option. In particular disposables, however, which are aimed pretty much exclusively at first time vapers not wanting to get a kit, the cost of production means that claims are inflated otherwise they work out more expensive than smoking.

My aim is to help people switch from cigarettes to vaping, by giving honest advice as well as asking for their feedback. In truth I do see it as a bit of a crusade. From that POV I can handle the disparity as long as its included with a detailed explanatory leaflet allowing the person to compare the mechanics of vaping and the difference between the habits.

I know now that my habit has changed to taking a puff every now and then rather than puffing for 5min at a time, for example.

VIP carts do no longer state 'amount of cigarettes equivalent' anywhere on their packaging, nor on the starter kit, though it is on the website and leaflets.

It's up to responsible vendors to advise people if the supplier feels they have to stick to an obsolete method of comparison, though I agree a better method, were it acceptable to ECCA, should be employed.
19/08/12 02:08 PM
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FlavourArtUK (20/08/12)
Matt Gluggles Offline
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Post: #14
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
I think that this issue will become alot more clear in the near future.

It appears that Intellicig have some detailed studies, using blood plasma nicotine levels, that show how much nicotine is delivered from a measured dose of certain strengths of e-liquid. This is part of the application for a Market Authorisation and the details are commercially sensitive at the moment, but if and when the Market Authorisation proposal is completed and the data is made more widely available, it will be IMPOSSIBLE for any of these companies to claim 40 cigs equivalence from 0.9ml of 16mg e-liquid.
19/08/12 02:16 PM
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Toby | iVapour Online
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Post: #15
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
(09/08/12 12:42 AM)samuelmunro Wrote:  An average human inhalation is approximately 1.5 seconds. A "whole" regular sized (not superking) cigarette equates to 10 average inhalations. Of course some people smoke a tobacco cigarette in 10 drags whilst others can burn a full cigarette down in 4 or 5 much longer drags.

I just timed my drag just now.

3 continuous puffs (approximately 6 seconds) per drag; so about 18 seconds per drag (using a 1.5 ohm dual coil).

How many drags per cartridge?

Well... it should really be, how large is your tank?

iVapour.co.uk - Janty UK Supplier; the original eGo.
iVapour-elixir.co.uk - Silver Bullet, mods, and spares.
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20/08/12 12:21 AM
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Stoney Offline
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Post: #16
The "Carto equals" claim thread
If somebody asked me, i would estimate 1ml of eliquid to be about 6 smokes worth ..

a vendor on our forum was advertising a 'cigalike' disposable with a claim of 250 puffs per unit. a member bought one and used it walking home from the post office, 35 puffs it was flat, did not last the 10 minute walk.
recharged it and it would then manage 10 to 12 puffs before needing another charge.

these pieces of crap do more damage to the image of vaping than anything else, seeing as they are often peoples first device to try it out.
20/08/12 02:53 AM
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FlavourArtUK Offline
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Post: #17
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
Maybe you could expand the thread to include all advertising that might be
perceived as misleading or which might require further clarification.

I would have expected all ECITA members to be leading the way in this field
but that might not be the case when viewing some of their members' websites.

Vapourlites have 'quit smoke - flavour vapour' on the packaging for their refills
and also state 'Vapourlites now supply NHS staff with electronic cigarettes' which
might be true if any NHS staff member has bought one but which also might imply
an official connection with the NHS.

Vapestick state "it produces a harmless water 'vapour'" and
"you won't have to worry about harming your health if you choose to smoke e cigarettes",
which we know has not yet been scientifically proven.

Fantacig offer an Esweets ecig with no nicotine stating "making it friendly and desirable to
both smokers and non smokers alike". This could easily prompt claims from the antis of
'enticing non smokers to take up a habit that could be the gateway to Nicotine addiction'.

Freedom cigarettes state, "Super Cartomiser refills (i-Pack and 2012 starter kit) last
approximately 350 puffs depending on the user. This is approximately two packets of
traditional cigarettes. Our new Super Cartomiser disposable lasts approximately 600 puffs
depending on the user. This is approximately three packets of traditional cigarettes,
which is amazing value for money."

Vapouriz state, "Unlike other disposables available on the market today, the Vapouriz Solo
lasts for much longer, each one lasts the equivalent of up to approximately 40 normal cigarettes!"

VIP state, "each filter offers comparable use to 40 regular cigarettes".

This doesn't reflect well on ECITA who charge £600 per month membership
to vendors and claim their services include full compliancy and ethical practice checks.
Maybe ECCA could liaise with ECITA on these issues?

Cheers

JC

√-1 2^3 ∑ π and it was delicious!
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20/08/12 09:41 AM
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trog100 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
these claims go back a long way.. someone in china worked out you get 15 or so puffs from a cigarette.. 150 (could be 300 its a long time back) or so puffs from an ecig cartridge which back then contained 1 mil of liquid..

the carts shrank to .5 mil (mini cigs) but the claims stayed the same so did the cost of the carts.. a super mini held .25 mil of liquid.. now they use a machine to accurately count the "puffs"..

false puff counts (cig equivalents) hooked me into trying my first e cigs.. at £70 quid for a gamucci and a fortune for the carts i would not have entertained the idea otherwise.. false claims fires the whole game off.. honesty dosnt sell products.. a shame but true..

trog

(This post was last modified: 20/08/12 11:49 AM by trog100.)
20/08/12 11:47 AM
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JayLavEnts Offline
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Post: #19
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
(20/08/12 02:53 AM)Stoney Wrote:  a vendor on our forum was advertising a 'cigalike' disposable....

......recharged it and it would then manage 10 to 12 puffs before needing another charge.

Recharged a Disposable?? How?


(20/08/12 02:53 AM)Stoney Wrote:  these pieces of crap do more damage to the image of vaping than anything else, seeing as they are often peoples first device to try it out.

I know what you mean, but I believe there are other things that are way more harmful to the act of vaping.
I reaffirm that if the devices were properly labelled (removal of misleading claims) and came with explanatory information (indicating a realistic comparison) that people wouldn't respond so negatively to their lifetime.

I disagree that all people are put off by unrealistic expectation.
As long as people have at least a good few hours of use though, and they are aware of rechargeable units, they will have recalled the positive that they enjoyed it (even if for a short time) and the negative of battery life or cart content can be overturned with the correct starter kit.
20/08/12 11:50 AM
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JayLavEnts Offline
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Post: #20
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
(20/08/12 11:47 AM)trog100 Wrote:  false puff counts (cig equivalents) hooked me into trying my first e cigs.. at £70 quid for a gamucci and a fortune for the carts i would not have entertained the idea otherwise

trog

Great point Trog, and it adds a little balance to the thread IMO.
Truth is, a lot of us can say, even though we may have been misled, it was this that made it seem worthwhile, and as a result, we have it to thank for our habit.

If it works, and people are encouraged to Pick up vaping as a result, looking to reduce costs after their initial 'rip-off', than we have created a vaper out of a smoker.
20/08/12 11:56 AM
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