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The "Carto equals" claim thread
Paco Offline
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Post: #51
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
(20/08/12 09:41 AM)FlavourArtUK Wrote:  Vapestick state "it produces a harmless water 'vapour'" and
"you won't have to worry about harming your health if you choose to smoke e cigarettes",
which we know has not yet been scientifically proven.

You very clearly question claims from competing businesses. Your response being that it has not yet been proven scientifically. No problem there but then in your long essay of an answer, you state:

(21/08/12 06:23 AM)FlavourArtUK Wrote:  So when Giorgio makes a claim about electronic cigarette vapour not being harmless, I must remind him that he is a hypocrite unless he can disclose data;
it doesn't matter whether it is vital to his work or to the future of their business or is commercially sensitive, but that someone on a forum doesn't believe him.

Can you not see the double standards?

But there is a big difference between the claims made by the Cardiologist, Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos of the Onassis Cardiac Center in Athens and those of "Intellicig" or "Vapestick". First of all, he backed up all his claims with verifiable data. Data that can be used at the very least, as a starting point and open the way for further studies or challenges by other Doctors or Scientists.

But what he is not doing,is making the claims on a package or on a website and trying to sell ecigs on the back of his studies.

You are running a business and as such, you have a responsibility to the consumer. You are very quick to name and critisise competing companies when what you should be doing is putting your own business in order.

Neither you nor "Intellicig" have pioneered or innovated anything. You are selling relabeled Chinese e-cigs, Chinese cartos and UK bottled nicotine. That's it. You can call it EcoPure or Virgin's Best but it's just nicotine.
(This post was last modified: 23/08/12 02:40 PM by Paco.)
23/08/12 02:13 PM
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FlavourArtUK Offline
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Post: #52
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
100% UK manufactured Refill Cartridges, including the plastic mouthpiece, inner capsule,
foam matrix, ECOpure liquid, foil-sealing, blister packaging.
ECOpure developed in 2008 and the first UK manufacturer to produce eliquid using Ph Eur Nicotine
and first offered for sale in April 2009.
ECOpure manufactured entirely at the UMIC Bioscience facility in Intellicig's laboratory that has a clean room for
producing liquid and Refills, and which was inspected and passed as cGMP by the MHRA, which means they are able
to manufacture to 'Pharmaceutical Standards'.
Nicadex, now in final prototype stage, with clinical studies expected to be conducted early in 2012, and a
Marketing Authorisation application scheduled for the summer of 2012. Nicadex will be manufactured to ISO 13485
No health claims on packaging or websites that contravene MHRA guidelines.
Sold worldwide in around 8,000 pharmacies and retail outlets.
Promoted on National TV by Dr Chris Steele who has over 30 years experience in the field of cessation
and who is respected as a leading authority. He wasn't paid to do that.

I have an inkling that we have met before in forum world and that you are an ardent Intellicig detractor.
You are certainly adept at ignoring the truth, even when I suggested you contact the Regulatory and Clinical Manager
at Intellicig's facility at UMIC, something which you seem not to want to do. If you are a seeker of truth then you
would contact him and ask the questions that you repeatedly ask on here. You might also want to make your accusations
directly to Intellicig. Why don't you do that? It might bring more clarity and credence to your arguments if they were
based on real evidence that you had sought out.

Feel free to reply with whatever you wish but I cannot really add any more to this thread.
If you believe that you are right then you are right, that's your prerogative, just as it is mine to disagree.

JC - trying hard to make a wage from my own business whilst still spending time pursuing my passion
for helping others to find an alternative to smoking tobacco. I worry about making ends meet but
I sleep with a clear conscience because I am honest to myself and my beliefs.

Quote from CN Creative's website http://www.cncbio.com/

MANCHESTER, UK, May 30, 2012 – CN Creative, Ltd. (CNC), a healthcare company providing innovative and sustainable solutions to reduce smoking and smoking-related illnesses, today reported advances in the company’s regulatory and market initiatives for its Nicadex electronic inhaler nicotine replacement therapy (NRT) product and Intellicig electronic cigarettes.

Nicadex is being developed for use as part of medically supervised smoking harm reduction programmes, with a Marketing Authorisation Application (MAA) to the UK Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) targeted for year-end. CN Creative plans soon to initiate a UK clinical trial of Nicadex that will provide data for the MAA submission. The company also intends to apply the data and materials generated for the MAA submission in the UK to its regulatory strategy for Europe and the US, in consultation with its expert advisors, European regulatory authorities and the US Food and Drug Administration.

Intellicig is a high quality electronic cigarette currently marketed in 26 countries. The nicotine containing cartridge for both Intellicig and Nicadex is manufactured in the company’s own facilities in the UK using pharmaceutical grade materials that are now fully certified as cGMP, meaning that the manufacturing process adheres to the rigorous guidelines required for medically regulated products such as pharmaceuticals and medical devices. In addition, the electronic device components of Nicadex will be produced in the UK under ISO 13485 standards.

“From the start, our strategy has been to engineer and produce our electronic inhaler nicotine delivery products to medical standards, and we believe this approach is especially appropriate in view of the evolving regulatory situation,” said David Newns, a co-founder and Company Director of CN Creative. “Our plans for a clinical trial of Nicadex in the UK are proceeding well and we are on track to file an MAA around the end of this year. We plan to use data and materials from our UK dossier to support Nicadex and Intellicig regulatory filings in Europe and the US, where regulatory requirements are currently being formulated and where the rapidly growing demand for high quality electronic cigarettes is providing considerable traction as we ramp up Intellicig’s market presence.”

√-1 2^3 ∑ π and it was delicious!
İmage
23/08/12 03:02 PM
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Matt Gluggles Offline
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Post: #53
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
(23/08/12 02:13 PM)Paco Wrote:  Neither you nor "Intellicig" have pioneered or innovated anything.

But then again ..................


İmage

QUOTE:

Our research centre is located in the heart of the health corridor in Manchester, UK surrounded by the prestigious Manchester Royal Infirmary and the Wellcome Trust Clinical Research Facility.

Our previous research has included ground breaking work on Tobacco Specific Nitrosamines and developing detection methods along with stabilisation techniques.

The research team at CNC are all encompassing with an enviable skill set from Biochemists, 3D CAD technicians and electronics engineers.

CNC has invested heavily in state of the art laboratory and development equipment & software giving the team the best resources to excel and deliver outstanding results.

All of the company’s research is focused in both extending our knowledge and maintaining our world leading expertise and position along with directly developing new, innovative and exciting products and services.

CNC are also committed to protecting their ideas through patents and other intellectual protection strategies, as such we have invested in our own in house IP Manager, who integrates throughout our various teams ensuring maximum protection is obtained.

The entire research team are encouraged to be creative and develop ideas that will be of value to the company.

With our in-house resources, we can take both mechanical and electromechanical ideas from concept to production in our specialised Medical Device production facility, controlled by ISO13485 standards.

The CNC team also develops strong supplier relationships and sources products globally to exacting specifications. A key part of our sourcing process is supplier validation, which guarantees the consistent delivery of quality and quantity in a timely and professional manner, pursuant to our quality systems. We have successfully sourced key raw materials and initiated multi-supplier/multi-process activities prior to delivery for in-house production.

CNC’s electronics department works with leading manufacturers and their technical teams to provide solutions to the software and component challenges presented.

CNC works alongside sector leaders in researching Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients (APIs) .

The company works alongside sector leaders to research Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients (API’s) and relevant excipients to create stable, efficacious and user friendly medicines.

Investment in Testing

CNC has invested heavily in specialised testing equipment to allow rapid development of in-house prototypes and testing techniques, substantially speeding up regular drug development projects.

Once developed, the finished medicines can be manufactured within CNC’s own drug production facility operating to cGMP standards and batch released by our Qualified Person (QP).

This, along with our significant expertise, identifies us as leaders in this sector.

http://www.cncbio.co.uk/research-development/




Doesn't sound cheap.
(This post was last modified: 23/08/12 03:20 PM by Matt Gluggles.)
23/08/12 03:13 PM
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ukmadstu Offline
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Post: #54
The "Carto equals" claim thread
I've not long got back from Tunisia where I caught the eye of an old bloke from London. He approached saying what the hell is that pointing at my lavatube an DID and when I explained it all he pulled out his cig-a-like and said he had brought 10 510 batteries and 100 cartos with him. He also brought 20 disposables just Incase he couldn't charge his 510's in Tunisia! I asked what he was paying for cartos he said 20 cartos for £50 and that would last him a few days and he was a 20 a day smoker. He still had all his empties so I filled them up for him (didn't know about that either) and sent him home with my old imist i had taken as a second spare and a list of sites and info. You would have thought I had told him he had won a million by the look on his face when I told him in nice terms he was being ripped off and there are lots of alternatives. Poor poor sod.
23/08/12 04:00 PM
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Paco Offline
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Post: #55
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
Quote:I have an inkling that we have met before in forum world and that you are an ardent Intellicig detractor.

I can assure you that we never met anywhere before and that I have nothing against Intellicig as a company or against yourself. My issue is with the numerous unsubstantiated claims made by this company throughout the years. And they are unsubstantiated.

Someone at these forums conducted some research on "Intellicig" and they did publish what they discovered. Here it is, second post.
23/08/12 04:47 PM
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Matt Gluggles Offline
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Post: #56
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
Thanks for completely de-railing an important threat about exagerated carto claims with your obsession about Intellicig.
23/08/12 04:52 PM
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Paco Offline
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Post: #57
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Glugger, you just posted half a page on "intellicig", JC posted half a book. How am I to be blamed when all I have done is replied to posts?

What I have said, is that the carto claims are false but do not harm the consumer. It catches their eye, gets them started and that is not a bad thing. What it does do, is harm vendors which is probably why most posts on what is a consumer matter are coming from vendors.
(This post was last modified: 23/08/12 05:07 PM by Paco.)
23/08/12 05:05 PM
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Ian-C Offline
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Post: #58
Re: RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
(23/08/12 04:47 PM)Paco Wrote:  
Quote:I have an inkling that we have met before in forum world and that you are an ardent Intellicig detractor.

I can assure you that we never met anywhere before and that I have nothing against Intellicig as a company or against yourself. My issue is with the numerous unsubstantiated claims made by this company throughout the years. And they are unsubstantiated.

Someone at these forums conducted some research on "Intellicig" and they did publish what they discovered. Here it is, second post.

Surprise more unsubstantiated research, i have nothing angainst those sort of claims if there is something to justify the comments. Just saying something is shit without an explanation is the sort of thing that closed the origional UKV.



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23/08/12 05:08 PM
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Paco Offline
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Post: #59
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
(23/08/12 05:08 PM)Ian-C Wrote:  Just saying something is shit without an explanation is the sort of thing that closed the origional UKV.


My mistake, I meant second page not post.
23/08/12 05:48 PM
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JayLavEnts Offline
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Post: #60
RE: The "Carto equals" claim thread
(23/08/12 05:05 PM)Paco Wrote:  Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

Glugger, you just posted half a page on "intellicig", JC posted half a book. How am I to be blamed when all I have done is replied to posts?

What I have said, is that the carto claims are false but do not harm the consumer. It catches their eye, gets them started and that is not a bad thing. What it does do, is harm vendors which is probably why most posts on what is a consumer matter are coming from vendors.

Quote:Neither you nor "Intellicig" have pioneered or innovated anything. You are selling relabeled Chinese e-cigs, Chinese cartos and UK bottled nicotine. That's it. You can call it EcoPure or Virgin's Best but it's just nicotine.

Paco, with respect, you made a statement, an opinionated accusation in fact, that the vendor felt they should respond to. That is why you "are to be blamed".

Reading some of the stuff from the old forum I could see a lot of bashing and some nasty stuff too- which we don't want to see on UKV2.

Re intellicig and CN I don't use their products and as such won't comment on their business as I am not an expert. It might be pertinent to add that they responded to your claim that they sell Chinese manufactured parts with a fair ripost that you have not acknowledged.

I think the consensus of the thread that is that overeggaterated claims are bad, fairer claims are better, and that a more relevant way of measurement or apparent equivalence is required.
24/08/12 11:34 AM
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