Important: Your continued use of this forum indicates acceptance of the forum rules. Please make sure you have read and understand these rules.

Post Reply 
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
We need your expertise and help. Nominations & Offers
India99 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 209
Likes Given: 155
Likes Received: 69 in 42 posts
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 2
Sex: Male
Location: Bromley, Kent
Post: #31
RE: We need your expertise and help. Nominations & Offers
sounds to me like you Don't want to say for reasons that may cause you to contradict your own statement on your own home page of http://www.eccauk.org/ where it says clearly "ECCA is a consumer advocacy group and has no affiliation with any vendor or trade association."

İmage

İmage

It's not a clone, it's a coincidental likeness
(This post was last modified: 28/04/13 11:37 PM by India99.)
28/04/13 11:34 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
MarkS Offline
Member
***

Posts: 173
Likes Given: 154
Likes Received: 174 in 71 posts
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 3
Sex:
Location:
Post: #32
RE: We need your expertise and help. Nominations & Offers
(28/04/13 11:28 PM)itsmeitis Wrote:  
(28/04/13 11:10 PM)MarkS Wrote:  We will never make everyone happy and you will always have those who would rather believe a conspiracy theory over the facts

precisely as i pointed out amid my first reply in this thread. Wink

I've taken the position I have to do a job and get it done. If that doesn't make some people happy I can live with that. I got fed up of just talking about it on forums and chat rooms and thought you know what. If I had any kind of substance behind my words I'd get involved and actually do something.

As I said earlier myself and Cearulea are now the Consumer contacts at ECCA, we will deal with any consumer issues brought to us on an individual basis. We can't do more than that, and if we can help, we will.
28/04/13 11:40 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
MarkS Offline
Member
***

Posts: 173
Likes Given: 154
Likes Received: 174 in 71 posts
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 3
Sex:
Location:
Post: #33
RE: We need your expertise and help. Nominations & Offers
(28/04/13 11:34 PM)India99 Wrote:  sounds to me like you Don't want to say for reasons that may cause you to contradict your own statement on your own home page of http://www.eccauk.org/ where it says clearly "ECCA is a consumer advocacy group and has no affiliation with any vendor or trade association."

İmage

Because that is how it sounds to you does not make it so. Again nowt but conjecture.

A donation does not make someone an affiliate.
28/04/13 11:41 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
India99 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 209
Likes Given: 155
Likes Received: 69 in 42 posts
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 2
Sex: Male
Location: Bromley, Kent
Post: #34
RE: We need your expertise and help. Nominations & Offers
but it makes them a Vendor when you have already stated that they own a vaping related Ltd Company

İmage

It's not a clone, it's a coincidental likeness
28/04/13 11:43 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
[-] The following 1 user Likes India99's post:
itsmeitis (28/04/13)
kondor101 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 101
Likes Given: 29
Likes Received: 51 in 28 posts
Joined: Oct 2012
Reputation: 3
Sex: Undisclosed
Location: Cannock
Post: #35
RE: We need your expertise and help. Nominations & Offers
For the record, I personally did not mind being asked to join a campaign. I did not much like being asked twice, because I wanted to get the thread back on to the matter in hand, but I understand that ECCA is pretty much single minded about the whole EU situation at the moment.

I do write to my MEPs and Lords, and have done so recently, but it was about Amazon trading as a Luxemburg company when it was only willing to sell something to the UK at a higher price (a kindle) an refused to sell it at the cheaper EU price from an EU Amazon outlet. They at first replied a sort of standard reply, but when I asked them to research a bit deeper and pointed to the parts of EU directives that were being abused they looked, and were surprised, and my concern is well on the way to being a question at a select committee, supported by Lords and MEPs.

I most certainly would campaign for the lack of regulation on Ecigs. But the problem for me is I can remember a time when we all wanted it to be regulated, and safe. When I bring up safety concerns I have with vendors I find that they, and several members, treat me like I am the bad guy. Like me asking for a more informed vendor/consumer relationship is somehow a bad thing.

There are things in the regulations I do not like. I do not like the fact they are talking about regulating nicotine fluids, but probably not for the reasons you think. The fact is that nicotine is an insecticide and is more organic than some alternatives. Yes its organic status is not recognized throughout the whole world, but it is recognized as organic in some parts and as such any EU farmer choosing to use it and sell organic produce to those parts of the world be unable to. This infringes these farmers right to earn a living to some degree, as EU human rights regulations state that everyone should be able to earn a living as they see fit unless it is illegal. It certainly is not illegal to sell produce to parts of s the world where it is allowed, even if that means using nicotine as an insecticide, but the regulation may cause that person to be unable to earn a living doing it.

There is other stuff. But how can I help when it seems that at the moment the vendors do have a free run to act however they please? The consumer body is supposed to be ECCA, and I would support them, if they would show me some proof of how they pressure the vendors to improve their services to the vendor. Have ECCA got a code of practice for the vendors? Also has any vendor ever been pulled up for breaking it? What is the process for changing the code of practice as and when problems become more apparent?

I really do need to see that the industry is capable of regulating itself before I agree that it does not need outside regulation. I am guessing that the EU will want to see the same sort of evidence, and good luck telling them they just want to spoil the fun for everyone.

EU directives, by themselves are pretty useless anyway. For instance the EU directive against human trafficking was agreed on two years ago. That is something that I think most of us would agree is far more important than some companies right to sell eliquid from his/her bedroom. And yet how many countries fully comply with the directive on human trafficking? Five, just five out of the twenty seven states think it is worth changing there rules to comply with the EU directive.

So, I would love to email my MEP telling them that the vendors are able to self regulate. I would love to be able to tell them that there was a good, strong, consumer body that pressured ecig vendors to improve their standards. But I can not, because lets be honest, at the moment ECCA seem more focused on campaigning the EU on behalf of vendors than they are campaigning vendors on behalf of the consumer. Can ECCA, or new ECCA, give me any examples from the recent past where they have contacted a vendor on behalf of the consumer? Obviously, you do not have to give me the full details.

I would like someone, in ECCA to take on the roll of taking on the vendors on behalf of the consumers, and I would like the vendors to listen to ECCA. At the moment it all seems a bit backwards.


Signature --- If you feel insulted by someone saying you would make a terrible lawyer, vaping diacetyl is the least of your worries mate! ---
(This post was last modified: 28/04/13 11:53 PM by kondor101.)
28/04/13 11:49 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
[-] The following 3 users Like kondor101's post:
India99 (28/04/13), itsmeitis (28/04/13), ukric (29/04/13)
MarkS Offline
Member
***

Posts: 173
Likes Given: 154
Likes Received: 174 in 71 posts
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 3
Sex:
Location:
Post: #36
RE: We need your expertise and help. Nominations & Offers
(28/04/13 11:43 PM)India99 Wrote:  but it makes them a Vendor when you have already stated that they own a vaping related Ltd Company

"has no affiliation with any vendor or trade association"
Key word there.

I repeat a donation does not make an affiliation and we did not receive a donation from the company as already stated. It was from a person as the person, not that it would have made one jot of difference.

As long as the donation does not carry any stipulations or favours which it didn't, then it's fine.

If people want to think that something untoward has gone on then please bring the proof. You won't be able to though because nothing untoward has.
(This post was last modified: 28/04/13 11:58 PM by MarkS.)
28/04/13 11:57 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
India99 Offline
Member
***

Posts: 209
Likes Given: 155
Likes Received: 69 in 42 posts
Joined: Nov 2012
Reputation: 2
Sex: Male
Location: Bromley, Kent
Post: #37
RE: We need your expertise and help. Nominations & Offers
a person who has made their money from a vaping company.

don't bullshit us all.

İmage

It's not a clone, it's a coincidental likeness
28/04/13 11:59 PM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
MarkS Offline
Member
***

Posts: 173
Likes Given: 154
Likes Received: 174 in 71 posts
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 3
Sex:
Location:
Post: #38
RE: We need your expertise and help. Nominations & Offers
(28/04/13 11:49 PM)kondor101 Wrote:  For the record, I personally did not mind being asked to join a campaign. I did not much like being asked twice, because I wanted to get the thread back on to the matter in hand, but I understand that ECCA is pretty much single minded about the whole EU situation at the moment.

I do write to my MEPs and Lords, and have done so recently, but it was about Amazon trading as a Luxemburg company when it was only willing to sell something to the UK at a higher price (a kindle) an refused to sell it at the cheaper EU price from an EU Amazon outlet. They at first replied a sort of standard reply, but when I asked them to research a bit deeper and pointed to the parts of EU directives that were being abused they looked, and were surprised, and my concern is well on the way to being a question at a select committee, supported by Lords and MEPs.

I most certainly would campaign for the lack of regulation on Ecigs. But the problem for me is I can remember a time when we all wanted it to be regulated, and safe. When I bring up safety concerns I have with vendors I find that they, and several members, treat me like I am the bad guy. Like me asking for a more informed vendor/consumer relationship is somehow a bad thing.

There are things in the regulations I do not like. I do not like the fact they are talking about regulating nicotine fluids, but probably not for the reasons you think. The fact is that nicotine is an insecticide and is more organic than some alternatives. Yes its organic status is not recognized throughout the whole world, but it is recognized as organic in some parts and as such any EU farmer choosing to use it and sell organic produce to those parts of the world be unable to. This infringes these farmers right to earn a living to some degree, as EU human rights regulations state that everyone should be able to earn a living as they see fit unless it is illegal. It certainly is not illegal to sell produce to parts of s the world where it is allowed, even if that means using nicotine as an insecticide, but the regulation may cause that person to be unable to earn a living doing it.

There is other stuff. But how can I help when it seems that at the moment the vendors do have a free run to act however they please? The consumer body is supposed to be ECCA, and I would support them, if they would show me some proof of how they pressure the vendors to improve their services to the vendor. Have ECCA got a code of practice for the vendors? Also has any vendor ever been pulled up for breaking it? What is the process for changing the code of practice as and when problems become more apparent?

I really do need to see that the industry is capable of regulating itself before I agree that it does not need outside regulation. I am guessing that the EU will want to see the same sort of evidence, and good luck telling them they just want to spoil the fun for everyone.

EU directives, by themselves are pretty useless anyway. For instance the EU directive against human trafficking was agreed on two years ago. That is something that I think most of us would agree is far more important than some companies right to sell eliquid from his/her bedroom. And yet how many countries fully comply with the directive on human trafficking? Five, just five out of the twenty seven states think it is worth changing there rules to comply with the EU directive.

So, I would love to email my MEP telling them that the vendors are able to self regulate. I would love to be able to tell them that there was a good, strong, consumer body that pressured ecig vendors to improve their standards. But I can not, because lets be honest, at the moment ECCA seem more focused on campaigning the EU on behalf of vendors than they are campaigning vendors on behalf of the consumer. Can ECCA, or new ECCA, give me any examples from the recent past where they have contacted a vendor on behalf of the consumer? Obviously, you do not have to give me the full details.

I would like someone, in ECCA to take on the roll of taking on the vendors on behalf of the consumers, and I would like the vendors to listen to ECCA. At the moment it all seems a bit backwards.

kondor. Thank you, and I am not being patronising. I mean it. You make some good points, some of which the new people (and old) as ECCA will be/are already addressing.

I agree ECCA have been concentrating on the politics and will continue to do so, but I've said before name one consumer association that finds it's self in the position that ECCA do right now?

Saying that, in fear of repeating myself. Me and Caerulea are now the people to come to in regards to consumer issues. We cannot take on a whole industry at once but appreciate and welcome anyone who can come to us with concerns regarding individual companies and we will deal with them one at at time. That is all we can do right now. Soe we have taken on board what people are asking for and working in that direction too. We won't perform miracles overnight as Kurl has said, but believe me we are trying to get there.
(This post was last modified: 29/04/13 12:22 AM by MarkS.)
29/04/13 12:10 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
[-] The following 2 users Like MarkS's post:
kondor101 (29/04/13), Ratfinkz (30/04/13)
Caerulea Offline
NNA UK
****

Posts: 635
Likes Given: 730
Likes Received: 976 in 258 posts
Joined: Feb 2013
Reputation: 8
Sex: Undisclosed
Location: UK

Thread Starter

Post: #39
RE: We need your expertise and help. Nominations & Offers
(28/04/13 11:59 PM)India99 Wrote:  a person who has made their money from a vaping company.

don't bullshit us all.

Well, to make such an assumption, I can only assume you know more about the individual than I do. That being so, I wonder why you are still questioning us?

If that is not the case, I wonder how you can make any such assumption?

It is not for us to disclose details of those donating. But it may not be a bad idea to have a section on the site that allows for ppl to post something about their donation should they choose to do so. I would have to check on the legalities of course.

I am sorry if you feel that this is us being secretive somehow, but that is not the case. If an individual donates to us then we are grateful for it. If they then start to make demands off the back of it, then that is something else altogether. If this was to become the case, then we would deal with it accordingly as anyone would expect us too.

You are perfectly within your rights to expect us to operate in a manner than benefits the consumer at all times. I applaud your desire to see an honest and functioning consumer association. I see no reason why we cannot be that for you.

(This post was last modified: 29/04/13 12:14 AM by Caerulea.)
29/04/13 12:11 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
MarkS Offline
Member
***

Posts: 173
Likes Given: 154
Likes Received: 174 in 71 posts
Joined: Mar 2013
Reputation: 3
Sex:
Location:
Post: #40
RE: We need your expertise and help. Nominations & Offers
(28/04/13 11:59 PM)India99 Wrote:  a person who has made their money from a vaping company.

don't bullshit us all.

No one has bullshitted anyone. You have just failed to understand what you have been told because you are far to wrapped up in your own suspicions. Which are unfounded.

I told you where the money has come from...that doesn't sit comfortably with you. Ok we get it. That doesn't mean ECCA nor anyone else has done anything wrong just because you think it does.

Please come forward with your ideas of funding or maybe even make a donation yourself?
(This post was last modified: 29/04/13 12:27 AM by MarkS.)
29/04/13 12:19 AM
Find all posts by this user Like Post Quote this message in a reply Return to top
[-] The following 1 user Likes MarkS's post:
Ratfinkz (30/04/13)
Post Reply 




User(s) browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)