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Who supported and who betrayed us?
fleeing Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Who supported and who betrayed us?
Of course all the main parties are very similar, much the same way as the different telly channels show the same dross, or supermarkets sell the same stuff. They are all out to get your vote/viewing time/cash.
But it is worth noting that this piece of EU-'compromise', though been voted on in the EU Parliament, was supported, quite possibly demanded, by the council of national governments, that include the British government.
It's quite 'in' to blame everything bad on the EU, but this attack on the health of all Europeans could never have been formulated without the support of Westminster.
[/quote]

I didn't realise we held that much weight within the EU. I've also had a dislike of the EU for quite some time, but as I said earlier - I shan't go there. Not the time or the place really.
[/quote]

I agree this is not the place to go into that too much.

But we can now see how the different MEPs and groups voted on Wednesday here.

Entirely predictable who voted for, against and who didn't bother to turn up at all.
28/02/14 10:53 AM
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RobC Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Who supported and who betrayed us?
I will still vote but I am planning to adorn my ballot paper with "E-cigs save lives" in protest.
01/03/14 12:11 AM
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Dragonmum Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Who supported and who betrayed us?
(28/02/14 10:49 AM)prof beard Wrote:  
(27/02/14 11:41 PM)rainbowreality Wrote:  This whole episode stinks. I've been a lifelong labour supporter but no more. My faith in politics has been severely damaged. Politicians have now shown they are quite happy to sentence millions to death rather than consider harm reduction as an alternative to ineffectual NRT. The harm reduction appears that it would have been very substantial but these people have been too ignorant or corrupt to accept the facts. My illusion that these politicians are for the good of the people has been shattered, they are hand maidens of corporate interests and are prepared to sacrifice it's citizens to that ends. All those in the 'think of the children' brigade, why don't they do that themselves and think of the children who will lose their parents thanks to their ignorant indignation. Sorry for the rant but this has left a very sour taste. Their only defence is ignorance or corruption and neither is acceptable. Shame on them!

It would be a good idea to email this to David Milliband - I emailed him in a similar fashion months back saying there were 1.3 millions possible votes at stake and got no reply. Like you I've always voted Labour (but more out of despair than conviction as I'm a libertarian far-lefty and have no-one else to vote for) but am approaching the point where - because I couldn't vote for the others - I may just not vote Sad
I'm on the same boat prof. but in view of all those women who suffered for my right to vote, I've always felt obligated to do so. I will have no problem
with the MEP vote, Derek Vaughan gets it unless Labour de-select him - he really bucked the trend by abstaining and it takes a bit of integrity to do that.
Have never had any illusions about politics, but at least I grew up in an age of giants like Nye Bevan who actually went out on a limb to get things done -
he would have bitten our hands off for the e-cig! Now they all go to all the same Public Schools - scratch one and you find the other, prolly up his arse!
Am in whiskey-fuelled rant mode so better leave it there.
01/03/14 06:28 PM
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bumble Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Who supported and who betrayed us?
(01/03/14 06:28 PM)Dragonmum Wrote:  
(28/02/14 10:49 AM)prof beard Wrote:  
(27/02/14 11:41 PM)rainbowreality Wrote:  This whole episode stinks. I've been a lifelong labour supporter but no more.

It would be a good idea to email this to David Milliband - I emailed him in a similar fashion months back saying there were 1.3 millions possible votes at stake and got no reply. Like you I've always voted Labour (but more out of despair than conviction as I'm a libertarian far-lefty and have no-one else to vote for) but am approaching the point where - because I couldn't vote for the others - I may just not vote Sad
I'm on the same boat prof. but in view of all those women who suffered for my right to vote, I've always felt obligated to do so. I will have no problem
with the MEP vote, Derek Vaughan gets it unless Labour de-select him - he really bucked the trend by abstaining and it takes a bit of integrity to do that.

I agree - I will always use my vote.

I'd suggest that it's worth distinguishing between actually voting and what we tell our current MP we will vote. We are faced with the MHRA's implementation of the TPD - and they may well want to go for their original proposal rather than the slightly better European version.

The fight is not yet over - and MPs will be critical in getting it "right" (ok, it won't be right but there is some potential for it being far more wrong than it could be).

This is either going to be dealt with before or after the May 2015 election. If before we target the current MP; if after, we target the candidates.

I live in a Tory constituency that swung from Lib Dem in 2010. Whatever my real voting intentions, I will tell my current MP that I voted Tory last time but will vote Lib Dem unless he backs a sensible line with the MHRA.

I will tell the Lib Dem candidate that I voted Lib Dem last time (when they lost) but will definitely vote Tory unless I see Lib Dems backing a sensible line with the MHRA.

It doesn't matter what I actually vote. What counts is getting these people to recognise that a million vapers will make a big difference - and it will affect their personal chances of success.
02/03/14 10:05 AM
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marlowejames Offline
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Post: #85
RE: Who supported and who betrayed us?
What I have found fascinating and even deeply suspicious was the fact that there has not been one single "outspoken" Labour politician within either the UK Govt or EU MEPs.

Whilst all the other national parties throughout Europe seemed to have politicians that looked at the evidence and in many cases took different stances to the party political line in particular our own Conservative MEPs and Lib Dem MEPs not a single labour politician was even prepared to acknowledge the concerns of his/her constituents. Considering that demographically smoking tobacco is more prevalent with their own supporters there must have been a mighty rod that was waved in front of them to ensure compliance and ensure no deviation from the party line.

One mustn't forget that nearly all Labour is actually controlled by the unions and not the labour party and I suspect that their influence was pivotal in this.
02/03/14 10:17 AM
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silverbear Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Who supported and who betrayed us?
I've also wondered about Labours silence.
But then I find this whole business confusing. Conservative MEPs supporting us, but the Conservative UK government totally complicit in this farago even though it was promoted by a Labour MEP.
I also have to wonder what form the Pharma lobbying took? What were all those millions spent on? - it couldn't have been just talking.
02/03/14 12:16 PM
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prof beard Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Who supported and who betrayed us?
(02/03/14 12:16 PM)silverbear Wrote:  I've also wondered about Labours silence.
But then I find this whole business confusing. Conservative MEPs supporting us, but the Conservative UK government totally complicit in this farago even though it was promoted by a Labour MEP.
I also have to wonder what form the Pharma lobbying took? What were all those millions spent on? - it couldn't have been just talking.

The pervading smell of rodent in all this is not so much rat as capybara...

I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools


İmage
02/03/14 02:59 PM
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bobbydazlers Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Who supported and who betrayed us?
I`ve had my say, if it will go anywhere is another matter entirely, I hope you approve of my text.


Tuesday 1 July 2014

Dear Robert Halfon,
I am righting to you with regards to the on-going debate over
e-cigarettes, I would have also contacted my mep but the name and
contact details have not been released as yet on this website.
I have been a smoker of cigarettes for over 40 years and despite many
attempts to quit with patches, gum and such could never manage to stay
off them for very long until I found e-cigarettes, now I am 100%
certain I will never return to smoking cigarettes as long as I can use
e-cigarettes.
I will probably never stop using e-cigarettes as I enjoy the
experience, one of the reasons why I found it so hard to quit smoking,
but I fear that if e-cigarette use is too heavily regulated it could
cause many problems for makers and distributers of e-cigarette item
maybe putting many out of business or making the range of devices and
flavours very limited or making the use of them too expensive and I
would then inevitably return to smoking.

I can understand that there are many concerns over the use of
e-cigarettes as they are only in their early stages but I would implore
that any legislation regarding the use of e-cigarettes be minimal,
there is a mountain of studies and tests that show how very safe they
are to use in comparison to other common household electrical items and
chemicals, also that the use of e-cigarettes is almost entirely by
people who already smoke, how there is virtually no danger in the use
of e-cigarettes to non users from second hand vapour unlike real
cigarettes, how very safe they are in comparison to smoking and how
the use of e-cigarettes has helped and is still helping many people to
severely lower the use of cigarettes or cut them out altogether far
exceeding the use of any other form of nicotine replacement therapy.

I welcome a ban on selling to under 18s but would suggest that controls
and testing of equipment be the same as any other household electrical
item and that the controls over the manufacturing and testing of
e-juice be very similar to that in food and drink market.

it worries me greatly when I read many reports on isolated incidents
that are blown up out of all proportion in comparison to any other
incident in the home and from many people who seem to be against the
use of e-cigarettes for one reason or another who quote unfounded
information coupled with what ifs and maybe's.


İmage

O pointy birds, o pointy pointy,
Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.
01/07/14 10:33 AM
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Dragonmum Offline
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Post: #89
RE: Who supported and who betrayed us?
Great post and well put.
01/07/14 11:14 AM
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Anjaffm Offline
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Post: #90
RE: Who supported and who betrayed us?
@bobbydazlers:
Great letter! Thumbs Up

.........

(02/03/14 02:59 PM)prof beard Wrote:  The pervading smell of rodent in all this is not so much rat as capybara...

This is one of the greatest ways of putting things that I have read in a long time!!! Thumbs Up
Bwaaahaaahaaa!!!! Big Grin
And very true indeed.

23/07/14 08:57 AM
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