is ASH any good ?

[Gluggler]

(21/09/12 05:54 PM)Rory Morrison Wrote:  for others though... somebody else made the point previously that some people need the 'official stamp of authority/NHS approved' on something before they go for it. Not anybody on this forum I'd imagine (pretty much by definition), but some people nonetheless. So some people who might be able to benefit from e-cigs currently steer away from them. For that to change, research will be necessary.

Rory, I hope that you are aware that Intellicig are almost at the point of submitting a proposal for a Market Authorisation for their e-cig device, so that can make medicinal (stop smoking) claims.

How do you think that this will affect the e-cig market ?

[Stevethesax]

(21/09/12 05:54 PM)Rory Morrison Wrote:  Obviously, not all research on e-cigs to date has been welcomed by the vaping community ... however there are some useful ongoing studies in the pipeline that might be of interest. Will post some back later.

I suspect that any genuine research will be welcomed - whatever its conclusion.
Many of us are more than happy to accept that vaping carries some risks, and we hope such risks fall into the 'acceptable' category...such as those associated with, say, paragliding or boxing.
I would venture to suggest that the powers-that-be 'got away with it' with regard to smokers (who here, for example, ever logged onto a smoking forum?), but vapers seem to be rather more clued up.
As 'your average man in the street' who takes a casual interest in science, I find I've been appalled at the conclusions of some of the studies I've seen about vaping - to the point where if I see the title 'Professor' the first thing I do is check on Google to see where they got their funding from.

Cheers,

Steve

[Rory Morrison]

(21/09/12 06:00 PM)Gluggler Wrote:  Rory, I hope that you are aware that Intellicig are almost at the point of submitting a proposal for a Market Authorisation for their e-cig device, so that can make medicinal (stop smoking) claims.

How do you think that this will affect the e-cig market ?

hmm, I think you guys are the experts on the market, not me! (My knowledge is more on the health science stuff, risks/benefits and so on.)

yes, I had heard of the intellicig application, there's also one from the British American Tobacco offshoot Nicoventures (pdf about it here), which I'm guessing would appear roughly round about the same time.

[dodderer]

I think this is the problem - MHRA said they'd get some research done prior to the final decision next Spring - we know roughly the attitudes of all the "public" bodies involved who will have funded the research(light touch regulation) - any guesses as to what the research will conclude?

[BlackwaterVaper]

(21/09/12 06:28 PM)dodderer Wrote:  I think this is the problem - MHRA said they'd get some research done prior to the final decision next Spring - we know roughly the attitudes of all the "public" bodies involved who will have funded the research(light touch regulation) - any guesses as to what the research will conclude?

That, I think, is the main point. A lack of trust of research papers exists not only amongst the vaping community but in other fields as well, especially pharmacueticals, because researchers tend to be influenced by the desired outcome of those funding the research.
An example of how spin can be placed to influence policy can be found at a site that exists to demonstrate the way research can be slanted by only giving results that are desired by the sponsor. The example on this site contains nothing that isn't competely true, but it only provides negative facts, no positive ones. In order to hide the substance being reported on it is given a name that, although scientifically accurate, is not a known name for the substance, which is water.
http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

Nobody can research the long-term effects of e-cigs because they were invented in 2003. One could argue the same for NRT, which is now sold using delivery methods that at one time were either unavailable or only available on prescription. But nicotine and propylene glycol used in the liquids are available in pharmacuetical quality and both are used as or in medicines.
For those who either are unable to quit using traditional methods or have no desire to quit, so far there is no unbiased evidence that ecigs are as dangerous as cigarettes and burning tobacco.
As for drugs such as Champix, there are warnings that this drug can cause severe deppression, self-harm, violence and death. My GP refuses to prescribe me anything that does not use nicotine in quit attempts because he considered taking these drugs as too dangerous for me, that continuing smoking would be less harmful.

[Rojeans]

Rory. I'd be interested in you opinion of this. Please read all of it. http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.fr/2012/...ronic.html

[dodderer]

(22/09/12 12:46 PM)Rojeans Wrote:  Rory. I'd be interested in you opinion of this. Please read all of it. http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.fr/2012/...ronic.html

It would make an excellent story line should the BBC ever make another series of "Yes,Minister":D

[Gluggler]

(22/09/12 12:46 PM)Rojeans Wrote:  Rory. I'd be interested in you opinion of this. Please read all of it. http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.fr/2012/...ronic.html

Hi mate, I think he covered it on other threads, alot of things are included in EU documents that never make it through - I agree.

I have not been able to trace this story back back to anything other than a 'Blog'.

Nothing concrete, and of course there cannot be anything concrete because the document is a draft, unfinished, always changing working document.

People suggesting 'bans' is nothing new, so just because this is European does not mean anything other than there are European killjoys as well as the ones we have over here - it won't happen.

Lots of unnecessary panic and a great way to drive traffic to a few blogs.

[Rojeans]

(22/09/12 01:11 PM)Gluggler Wrote:  

(22/09/12 12:46 PM)Rojeans Wrote:  Rory. I'd be interested in you opinion of this. Please read all of it. http://tobaccoanalysis.blogspot.fr/2012/...ronic.html

Hi mate, I think he covered it on other threads, alot of things are included in EU documents that never make it through - I agree.

I have not been able to trace this story back back to anything other than a 'Blog'.

Nothing concrete, and of course there cannot be anything concrete because the document is a draft, unfinished, always changing working document.

People suggesting 'bans' is nothing new, so just because this is European does not mean anything other than there are European killjoys as well as the ones we have over here - it won't happen.

Lots of unnecessary panic and a great way to drive traffic to a few blogs.

Agreed bud' but I was thinking more about the underlying feeling of the blog, in that the EU really could not enforce such a ban in the manner suggested by the scaremongers without exposing themselves as being totally corrupt, therefore and on this basis I agree with you, sensible regulation (Most of which is already voluntarily in force) will probably be the final outcome.

As an aside, much of what we are seeing on line, most of the public vapers remain ignorant about. But, those with a vested future interest will have done their research through the web, such as potentially new vendors that will now be procrastinating and sitting on the fence. Quite convenient for those who'd prefer it that way and I'm not talking about the anti's.

[Toby | iVapour]

(22/09/12 02:48 PM)Rojeans Wrote:  .. but I was thinking more about the underlying feeling of the blog, in that the EU really could not enforce such a ban in the manner suggested by the scaremongers without exposing themselves as being totally corrupt...

I thought they are (pretty much) totally corrupt anyway?

If the blog(s) is true.. and they even considered an outright ban on e-cigs, not only is it unethical, but it's downright immoral too...
.. and that is scary enough in itself...

And what do they want, a black market system to come about (due to harsh legislation) for potentially healthier lifestyles?

Completely bonkers...
.. but they've done it in other countries, so wouldn't surprise me if they somehow wangle it here as well...