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Eleaf iStick QC 200W
Leevis Offline
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Post: #1
Eleaf iStick QC 200W
Hi All
I have one of the above but it will not charge. Been looking on the internet and it seems that this is quite a common problem, internal battery loses charge. Not used this one in a while (a few months) and it appears to be dead but not sure if there is anything that i do to fix it. If i hold the fire button and down button when the device is OFF and powered by USB i get the internal battery readings which are as follows:
Bat 0.47 0.00 3.81
Looks like the first two are kind of knackered as they should all read similar to the third number. Anyone knowledgeable about these things?
L
(This post was last modified: 22/01/18 04:42 PM by Leevis.)
22/01/18 04:40 PM
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MDC Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Eleaf iStick QC 200W
(22/01/18 04:40 PM)Leevis Wrote:  Hi All
I have one of the above but it will not charge. Been looking on the internet and it seems that this is quite a common problem, internal battery loses charge. Not used this one in a while (a few months) and it appears to be dead but not sure if there is anything that i do to fix it. If i hold the fire button and down button when the device is OFF and powered by USB i get the internal battery readings which are as follows:
Bat 0.47 0.00 3.81
Looks like the first two are kind of knackered as they should all read similar to the third number. Anyone knowledgeable about these things?
L

Nearly all regulated mods flatten their batteries when not in use, though some do much more than others. The processor is always running, even in standby. Only exceptions are a few mods with a big power switch.

If the batteries are internal, you should keep them topped up. Any cell running much below 2.5v may be knackered. I wouldn't try recharging, mods in similar circumstances have gone pop.
22/01/18 05:21 PM
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ppeeble Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Eleaf iStick QC 200W
There's a reason the istick 3 battery 200w mods were being sold off for pennies. They're rubbish. I bought a job lot for less than $5 dollars each and after the first 3 stopped working i binned the rest.
Your batteries have been drained to the point that it would be dangerous to try and recharge them, don't even think about charging them in the device.
MDC is spot on about parasitic drain and the istick 200's (and some of the the Evic Primo minis) will fully discharge a battery in a week if left. Poxy Joyetech.
23/01/18 01:08 PM
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Ray_of_Light Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Eleaf iStick QC 200W
I have two of the Qc, they work wonders when OK. Known problem they kill the battery when left ON in storage.
They use a 3s 1650 mah 11.1 Volt Lipo, which can be sourced in toy helicopter replacement part stores. As it is a common size battery, you can build it with three single cells.
May be is worth to inquiry with eleaf to see if they sell a replacement.
Don't try to force charge a flat Lipo battery, as it is dangerous because they invariably get pyrotechnic.

Edit 6 Feb. : I can confirm that the firmware has a protection designed to the purpose, I. E. it will not start charging if one of the cell, or more, are too low voltage; it shows a "Check battery" message on the display when you connect the micro-USB cable, the battery icon flashes, and no charging actually takes place.
The mod has no hardware on-off switch (like the Sigelei 80/150), and the 5 click on-off action can actually happen while in transit, effectively killing the mod.
I don't believe the explanation; I'll leave an iStick 200 turned on and check its charge periodically. I tend to believe that bad battery, and not parasitic power consumption, to be the cause of such spread issues with the Qc 200.
(This post was last modified: 06/02/18 03:50 PM by Ray_of_Light.)
06/02/18 12:21 AM
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Ray_of_Light Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Eleaf iStick QC 200W
More update on 11 Feb.

I noted that eleaf has pulled the 200 QC from their official UK website ; basically resellers are not allowed to order more.
I'm walking on burning charcoal because I have four of them.
The QC seemed to me the poor-man alternative to the internal three-cell mods like the DNA 250 Tugboat, able to deliver 180 W throughout the battery life, to drive a daddy TFV8 at max power, reliably and without hassle. Well, sort of. Or, maybe not.
The QC 200 is turned on with the dreaded 5-click. The fire button is not debounced, so while in transit some of them turns on easily (vape seller friend told one in four) and then the parasitic drain kills the battery after a couple of months.
Yes, people at eLeaf forgot that prismatic Li-Po batteries are Li-CoO2 chemistry, and are bricked if brought below 3 Volt even briefly. Or, they used the board of their triple 18650 mod with a 3s Li-Po.
If I forget my mod on, the battery will die.
If I don't recharge my mod immediately after use, the battery will die.
No surprise it has been pulled out of the marlet; it lacks a fundamental undervoltage protection for the battery; the Tugboat disconnect completely the battery at 3 Volt, even from the parasitic load of few hundred microamps.
On the other side, the charger of the QC 200 is well designed: under no circumstances it will start charging if the voltage of any of the cells is below 3 Volt, so there are no safety risks involved. Just an hole in the wallet, so to speak.
I promised two friends of mine a three-cell setup, and now I have to find a cheap compact three cells mod.
I wasn't expecting such an oversight from eLeaf.
Oh, well.
11/02/18 04:06 PM
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MDC Offline
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Post: #6
RE: Eleaf iStick QC 200W
I can't see any reason why the 5 click on/off should make a difference - the processor is running in either mode, reading buttons. In 5-click off, it's reading the buttons, if only to read the 5-click on. In "on" mode, once the display turns off, and heartbeat ceases, no need for it to take more than standby power, again reading buttons until a one is pressed.

I'd also be surprised if there's no debounce at all - I've designed circuits where microprocessors read keys/buttons, and it's possible to get enough bounces to register 5 clicks in one or two presses . There might be a partial debounce due to low sampling rate, when you might just register two presses instead of one.
11/02/18 04:44 PM
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Daesimps Offline
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Post: #7
Eleaf iStick QC 200W
I've just ditched my QC200. I bought it when working away as I broke what I'd taken with me.

The battery life was fantastic, but the TC was hopeless. I even tried flashing an alternative firmware but it didn't help. Gone back to my trusty Innokin TC100. I was going to buy the Innokin 150 ultra, but they've made it too narrow for 25mm tanks.
11/02/18 06:35 PM
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Ray_of_Light Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Eleaf iStick QC 200W
Hi MDC,
I measured the parasitic drain with an ammetter, it is 300 uA off, 2 mA when on. Something in the output circuitry is drawing all that power; I suspect one of those 4 V chip ceramic capacitors.
The current mods have multiple debouncing, the micro has a statutory 10 millisecond one-shot multivibrator on each input line. Consider the current crop of mods has a dual boot capability, like the old MP3 players, to detect the On sequence and manage firmware updates. There, the hardware debounce shows up, with switches made with tiny tiny metal masses and too strong springs: the box containing the mods falls on floor, the 10 mS monostable does its job, and the mod is turned on. The battery dies a couple of months later. Not an assumption, I tested it.
Successively, during normal operation of the mod, there is a further level of debouncing, carried out via software, with a much longer time constant.
The manufacturers should review their mods for such tiny details, expecially for internal battery types; the reality is that those things are rushed to the factory door because they cannot stop their workforce waiting for a design refinement. If the mod produces Vapour, then is suitable for mass production. If it goes unsold, it is because the market dislike that model.
In conclusion. It is not a case that all last wave of internal battery mods have given up series battery; they are all 4.2 V multiple parallel.
13/02/18 06:12 PM
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MDC Offline
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Post: #9
RE: Eleaf iStick QC 200W
(13/02/18 06:12 PM)Ray_of_Light Wrote:  Hi MDC,
I measured the parasitic drain with an ammetter, it is 300 uA off, 2 mA when on. Something in the output circuitry is drawing all that power; I suspect one of those 4 V chip ceramic capacitors.
The current mods have multiple debouncing, the micro has a statutory 10 millisecond one-shot multivibrator on each input line. Consider the current crop of mods has a dual boot capability, like the old MP3 players, to detect the On sequence and manage firmware updates. There, the hardware debounce shows up, with switches made with tiny tiny metal masses and too strong springs: the box containing the mods falls on floor, the 10 mS monostable does its job, and the mod is turned on. The battery dies a couple of months later. Not an assumption, I tested it.
Successively, during normal operation of the mod, there is a further level of debouncing, carried out via software, with a much longer time constant.
The manufacturers should review their mods for such tiny details, expecially for internal battery types; the reality is that those things are rushed to the factory door because they cannot stop their workforce waiting for a design refinement. If the mod produces Vapour, then is suitable for mass production. If it goes unsold, it is because the market dislike that model.
In conclusion. It is not a case that all last wave of internal battery mods have given up series battery; they are all 4.2 V multiple parallel.

I don't understand - a monostable or software debouncing should require a stable state to trigger. Monostable debouncing subtracts the monostable time from the input surely? That's the way we did it anyway. Software debouncing is normally done in a timer-driven interrupt service routine - recognise a change of state after a number of passes through the routine reads the same changed state. I've never had a mod go from 5 click off to on with anything other than 5 rapid clicks.

As for the current, I'll take your word for it, but I see no reason for it. The microcontroller should have the output stage disabled in either standby mode - waiting for fire button no heartbeat or waiting for 5 clicks.

Think I would prefer parallel mods with step up/step down to series PWM mods, I see a serious issue with those - if the power supply isn't smoothed with large capacitors (size depends on PWM frequency, which is often quite low), a 3 cell mod driving a low resistance coil at low power is still going to cane the batteries, but with short high current pulses.
13/02/18 06:51 PM
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Ray_of_Light Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Eleaf iStick QC 200W
Key is, look at the oscope, across the fire switch, when the switch is impacted; see a train of pulses (which the one shot is meant to kill) with almost sonic frequence; that is read and shaped by the one-shot (which has a 10 mS time constant) and provide the unwanted ON signal. A solution would be a bigger switch, which provide longer spurious pulses that would be killed from the one-shot (monostable) multivibrator.

Parallel mods, because of the reliance of the boost circuit on the quality of the ferrite, and because of the absence of a synchronous rectifier (yes, many budget mods use a Schotty diode), ends up with a despicable efficiency level, less than 80 percent in some cases, which become unsustainable low with less than 0.2 Ohm coils.
One of the reasons why I went for the three-cell iStick 200 QC was the 95 percent, thanks to the 12 V power source, and the sync rectifier. I am looking at the 3 cell Cricket mod now - but I need a sample, reviews never check for the information that really matters.
All in all, seen the prices current mods go for, there are no reasons for complaining, but details matter to me.
(This post was last modified: 13/02/18 07:32 PM by Ray_of_Light.)
13/02/18 07:29 PM
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