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Important update from ECITA: legal advice re prospective bans
NorthStaR Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Important update from ECITA: legal advice re prospective bans
(22/02/13 06:55 PM)Vaporized Wrote:  
(15/02/13 06:40 PM)Grayson99 Wrote:  I think All the major e cig sellers should send it out will all of their orders e-lite mainly.
The mainstream users need to know about this.

I said a while back that the vendors should be making folks aware of this by some sort of an inclusion in every order

MrV

Agreed (I'm no vendor BTW!), I often wonder, with the exception of a few on here, what they are doing to protect their own business interests and customers as there are a lot of vendors in general that appear to remain quiet on the subject. They are in a perfect position to raise awareness through an already built platform - their stores.

If you go to a webstore there is zero info regarding this issue. That I find confusing to a degree. I understand they don't want to put people off spending or switching however it is also only benefiting them short term in theory. Or are many unaware like most of the ecig public? Who knows...

It's not a dig at all to Vendors, just an observation and I certainly haven't visited ALL webstores. That isn't possible!

It's only based on the ones I do visit which is a fair few TBH and to look at them nothing is mentioned at all.

A huge opportunity missed on a huge scale.

Ho-hum... Wink

ALL IMHO! <–please note....
(This post was last modified: 22/02/13 07:34 PM by NorthStaR.)
22/02/13 07:24 PM
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Grayson99 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Important update from ECITA: legal advice re prospective bans
(22/02/13 07:24 PM)NorthStaR Wrote:  
(22/02/13 06:55 PM)Vaporized Wrote:  
(15/02/13 06:40 PM)Grayson99 Wrote:  I think All the major e cig sellers should send it out will all of their orders e-lite mainly.
The mainstream users need to know about this.

I said a while back that the vendors should be making folks aware of this by some sort of an inclusion in every order

MrV

Agreed (I'm no vendor BTW!), I often wonder, with the exception of a few on here, what they are doing to protect their own business interests and customers as there are a lot of vendors in general that appear to remain quiet on the subject. They are in a perfect position to raise awareness through an already built platform - their stores.

If you go to a webstore there is zero info regarding this issue. That I find confusing to a degree. I understand they don't want to put people off spending or switching however it is also only benefiting them short term in theory. Or are many unaware like most of the ecig public? Who knows...

It's not a dig at all to Vendors, just an observation and I certainly haven't visited ALL webstores. That isn't possible!

It's only based on the ones I do visit which is a fair few TBH and to look at them nothing is mentioned at all.

A huge opportunity missed on a huge scale.

Ho-hum... Wink

ALL IMHO! <–please note....

Hit the nail on the head mate. If I had my own business and it was at risk I would fight tooth and nail.
(This post was last modified: 22/02/13 08:49 PM by Grayson99.)
22/02/13 08:47 PM
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Doodlebug Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Important update from ECITA: legal advice re prospective bans
You'd be surprised how much enlightened, intelligent and wise fighting IS going on. I can understand why vendors (in and out of ECITA) would NOT want to make a big song and dance about the political issues on their websites. After all, that isn't the 'key target', if you like, for the information that needs to get out there.

And that's neither a dig at, nor an excuse for any vendors! Tongue

22/02/13 10:37 PM
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Chronos Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Important update from ECITA: legal advice re prospective bans
(22/02/13 10:37 PM)Doodlebug Wrote:  I can understand why vendors (in and out of ECITA) would NOT want to make a big song and dance about the political issues on their websites.

AOL. I can see why posting something tantamount to "we might not be able to do this for very much longer" on a site where you're asking most people to try something new does not seem to be the very best way to grow one's business. Fills the customers with confidence, that. Confused

The important thing right now is to get more people vaping. Tipping point and all that...

What do you mean, wean myself from this dependency? I enjoy this dependency!
(This post was last modified: 22/02/13 11:31 PM by Chronos.)
22/02/13 11:29 PM
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NorthStaR Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Important update from ECITA: legal advice re prospective bans
Get a cup of tea, I've just written "Lord of the Vape Rings"... all three volumes in one hit! Wink

(22/02/13 10:37 PM)Doodlebug Wrote:  You'd be surprised how much enlightened, intelligent and wise fighting IS going on. I can understand why vendors (in and out of ECITA) would NOT want to make a big song and dance about the political issues on their websites. After all, that isn't the 'key target', if you like, for the information that needs to get out there.

And that's neither a dig at, nor an excuse for any vendors! Tongue

I don't disagree with regards to ECITA and your hard work Doodlebug. Your (collectively) doing a fantastic job. However I'm a new vaper and I'm furious at what may happen. I'd rather know now than wake up in a couple of months and go BEEEP! The BEEPING BEEPERS! Why didn't someone tell me. I've just spent a ton and it's all redundant. I am one of those Key targets.

(22/02/13 11:29 PM)Chronos Wrote:  AOL. I can see why posting something tantamount to "we might not be able to do this for very much longer" on a site where you're asking most people to try something new does not seem to be the very best way to grow one's business. Fills the customers with confidence, that. Confused

The important thing right now is to get more people vaping. Tipping point and all that...

The truth hurts. It always does. Anything else is selling a product knowing that it isn't sustainable if the proposals go through. TBH if vaping does go down the pan in terms of making it ineffective, the business won't grow anyway. It will in effect shrink considerably and fast. The underground market will grow and that won't include vendors. Not legally. Their own worst enemy. The best they can do is sell flavours and paraphernalia like other grey markets.

If vaping is regulated to the point of pointlessness then those customers won't be around for long either way. Think long term and include those already vaping. Nobodies gonna buy into another pointless NRT system except the Pharmacies. It is protecting the new vapers from the truth.

For example; a friend at work said he wants to start vaping and his reason is to quit smoking altogether. Sounds familiar. How do I tell him without guilt to invest in something both mentally, physically and financially if it's potential is about to vanish? He won't bother. I also can't advise him to go out and buy a kit knowing damn well he's hoping to quit when he won't be able to anyway.

OK catch 22.

It's little more than cashing in on lifejackets when the boat is about to start sinking. And those lifejackets are all kids sizes and the customers are all adults. They'll drown for quick cash.

It is a tough call. I understand business but long term if it is to survive action is required. To make money you have to spend and lose money. Besides the information is only short term if overturned (or not) thus returning vendors to business as usual (or not). It won't stop those already vaping and feeling the benefits.

As far as I am aware there isn't enough time for that tipping point now?

March is looming is it not? So what, a months the worst case scenario then big changes. Hopefully ECITA will have enough legal clout to have anything proposed overturned. However hope is another word for masking fear. Mine and everyone elses.

Tough stuff. If numbers count then we need as many as possible as quick as possible.

Knowledge is power. Money is not.

ALL IMHO! <– Please note. And I repeat for anyone that hasn't read the previous posts. This is my general view. Not specifying any vendor in particular at all. Just a view from a noob.
(This post was last modified: 23/02/13 01:11 AM by NorthStaR.)
23/02/13 01:06 AM
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Toby | iVapour Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Important update from ECITA: legal advice re prospective bans
(22/02/13 07:24 PM)NorthStaR Wrote:  If you go to a webstore there is zero info regarding this issue. That I find confusing to a degree.

It's not a dig at all to Vendors, just an observation and I certainly haven't visited ALL webstores. That isn't possible!

You asked; so this is what I have done (long time before the recent humdingy, because it's been on the cards for a long time)...

On the home page -
Quote:E-cig freedom in the EU is under very serious threat.
Click Here to sign a petition to keep e-cigarettes legal and available in EU.
And part of Ian's opinion is here -
NEWS


And then if you click to News page -
Quote:An opinion by Ian

"The only argument that will see vaping in its current form survive is that it is an alternative means of recreational nicotine consumption. A big part of the problem facing us is that until very recently nicotine was synonymous with smoking which was synonymous with cigarettes. Saying you wanted to quit smoking was taking to mean you wanted to quit nicotine.

Now, thanks to vaping, we have a means of consuming nicotine that is both enjoyable and has no known health impact. Unfortunately the language, and people’s perception, hasn’t caught up. I don’t want to quit nicotine. I don’t need therapy for it. I don’t need medical treatment because I don’t have an illness or a disease. Nicotine addiction was only a health issue when tobacco was the only available means of feeding that addiction, but that is no longer the case. There is now no condition to treat as far as I’m concerned.
Indeed, if you follow that logic, it makes much more sense to retire the whole notion of NRT rather than expand it to include more approved devices."

Please also bear in mind that Ian's opinion was written circa early 2010...
.. it's old news... Wink

23/02/13 01:36 AM
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NorthStaR Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Important update from ECITA: legal advice re prospective bans
Good on you 'Toby | iVapour', yours is one site I haven't visited or used. Blush

That really is all that is required on the sites. I don't see it as political in as much as saying allegiance to certain parties. It isn't asking people to vote in any particular way. It is however enlightening old and new vapers to the potential issue and giving them the choice to act or not. Either way it is spreading the word.
23/02/13 01:50 AM
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dodderer Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Important update from ECITA: legal advice re prospective bans
(23/02/13 01:06 AM)NorthStaR Wrote:  For example; a friend at work said he wants to start vaping and his reason is to quit smoking altogether. Sounds familiar. How do I tell him without guilt to invest in something both mentally, physically and financially if it's potential is about to vanish? He won't bother. I also can't advise him to go out and buy a kit knowing damn well he's hoping to quit when he won't be able to anyway.

You must tell him to start vaping and try to replace smoking - this must be the best advice whatever the situation re regulation.

The TPD will not come into effect until Apr14 at the earliest as far as I understand

If the MHRA proceed and can't be stopped they most likely will allow a year to obtain a licence at least

Some form of stronger nicotine juice should be available from any licenced vendor before regulation strikes

Whatever limitations are imposed,vaping is better for you than smoking - this is tobacco harm reduction
23/02/13 09:39 AM
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Post: #39
RE: Important update from ECITA: legal advice re prospective bans
(22/02/13 06:55 PM)Vaporized Wrote:  
(15/02/13 06:40 PM)Grayson99 Wrote:  I think All the major e cig sellers should send it out will all of their orders e-lite mainly.
The mainstream users need to know about this.

I said a while back that the vendors should be making folks aware of this by some sort of an inclusion in every order

MrV

FWIW I have designed and printed a stack of leaflets to hand out to customers, advising them to tell their doctor that vaping is a healthier choice for them, and that If they are so minded to keep that choice in the future, to contact their MEP's.

As a retailer I have particular sway in influencing opinion via face to face chat and strong relationships with many of my customers.

I can see how the manufacturer/suppliers aren't going to find that easy as stated above, but resellers online should be sending out info with orders even if not on the website.

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23/02/13 10:22 AM
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NorthStaR Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Important update from ECITA: legal advice re prospective bans
(23/02/13 09:39 AM)dodderer Wrote:  
(23/02/13 01:06 AM)NorthStaR Wrote:  For example; a friend at work said he wants to start vaping and his reason is to quit smoking altogether. Sounds familiar. How do I tell him without guilt to invest in something both mentally, physically and financially if it's potential is about to vanish? He won't bother. I also can't advise him to go out and buy a kit knowing damn well he's hoping to quit when he won't be able to anyway.

You must tell him to start vaping and try to replace smoking - this must be the best advice whatever the situation re regulation.

The TPD will not come into effect until Apr14 at the earliest as far as I understand

If the MHRA proceed and can't be stopped they most likely will allow a year to obtain a licence at least

Some form of stronger nicotine juice should be available from any licenced vendor before regulation strikes

Whatever limitations are imposed,vaping is better for you than smoking - this is tobacco harm reduction

Currently I have told him to vape and I've said I'll help him pick the right kit to save him from the minefield of vaping paraphernalia.

The issue is I know this may be only potentially sustainable short term and he will most definitely go back to smoking rollies. A month or two isn't going to make much difference long term (in theory). I haven't fully mentioned the potential issue arising as to not put him off. Not to the degree that is proposed. It was posted only as an example. I DO want him to vape as a safer alternative. Hence the catch 22 mentioned earlier.


I've stock piled just in case but not all can afford too or realise the reality. There will be a mass rush if it really does come into force. There's no point doing this when the rush starts as it will be too late... I'm one of those "Apocalyptic Preppers" Big Grin

(23/02/13 10:22 AM)JayLavEnts Wrote:  
(22/02/13 06:55 PM)Vaporized Wrote:  
(15/02/13 06:40 PM)Grayson99 Wrote:  I think All the major e cig sellers should send it out will all of their orders e-lite mainly.
The mainstream users need to know about this.

I said a while back that the vendors should be making folks aware of this by some sort of an inclusion in every order

MrV

FWIW I have designed and printed a stack of leaflets to hand out to customers, advising them to tell their doctor that vaping is a healthier choice for them, and that If they are so minded to keep that choice in the future, to contact their MEP's.

As a retailer I have particular sway in influencing opinion via face to face chat and strong relationships with many of my customers.

I can see how the manufacturer/suppliers aren't going to find that easy as stated above, but resellers online should be sending out info with orders even if not on the website.

Spot on Bud. Good on you too. Big Grin You and Toby are role models for the other Vendors that should already be doing this. Like I said, it's not political, it's a fight for survival. In order to fight numbers count, just like war.
(This post was last modified: 23/02/13 11:25 AM by NorthStaR.)
23/02/13 11:23 AM
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